Commenting On: Celebrating Diversity In Anime

All Comments: 7

1. Great article! I would also like to recommend BBK/BRNK. It was mainly overlooked due to it being CG (gorgeous looking CG though), and crazy even if it all makes sense at the end (it’s also crazy fun). At first, it doesn’t seem so but this show has one of the more diverse casts I’ve ever seen in an anime. You’ll notice once the teams from other countries start showing up, especially the one from America and China. Really cool female characters too and an interesting male lead who’s not testosterone-fueled 😉

   This is what team America looks like:
   http://static.anime21.blog.br/2016/03/Bubuki-Buranki-10.mkv_001108.624.png

   And the team based in Honk Kong if I’m not mistaken:
   https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CyP6791UQAETt66.jpg

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2. The “demand” for diversity, especially for another country, is pretty bad. The idea we need to see ourselves do well to do well is demeaning. The first African American Olympic ice skater, when asked repeatedly about her “role models” , eventually said, “I don’t need to see someone black do something to believe I could”. I don’t need to see Hillary Clinton be president to believe a woman could be president. Don’t need to see Asians in American entertainment industry to believe Asians can do well in America.

   Frankly Asian Americans do extremely well, in fact have a higher per capital income than most races in America. When others think we (minorities) need to see minorities be successful to think we (minorities) can be successful, it’s patronizing. So the demand for diversity for humanitarian needs is just identity politics.

   Already had a few years of forced diversity in Marvel comics and they admit themselves it didn’t work out financially, as most “diverse” titles they release do very poorly. and its not cause comic nerds are racist/sexist/bigots/ect.

   I’m not against other racial/gendered/cultural perspectives in media. I technically write “diversity” stuff. As generally it isn’t from the perspective of a white American male. But I don’t write diversity. I ask to be seen as a person, not a minority group. So I write as a person, not a minority group. I’m against the social group think that says we have to have this for what ever reason that generally isn’t true to begin with.

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   1. Have you heard of the “model minority myth”? The disaggregated data of Asian Americans reveals significant socioeconomic disparities between Asian American ethnic groups.

      Reading Between the Data: The Incomplete Story of Asian Americans, Native Hawaiians, and Pacific Islanders (Feb 2014)
      https://www.americanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/AAPI-report.pdf

      How data disaggregation matters for Asian Americans and Pacific Islanders (Dec 2016)
      http://equitablegrowth.org/equitablog/how-data-disaggregation-matters-for-asian-americans-and-pacific-islanders/

      And for a counterpoint on diversity in comics:

      http://www.cbr.com/no-diversity-didnt-kill-marvels-comic-sales/

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      1. doubt you will read all of this, but for those who want another perspective. here you go.

         The fact “Asian” is comprised of many ethnic groups does not change anything. You can subdivide essentially any racial groups and say the fact they are composed of multiple groups, which perform differently, so the statement is not “accurate”. in fact if you separate the groups you help push the numbers even higher. Indian’s have a even higher average income than the rest of the “Asian” population and whites and since they don’t have the rest of the Asian population inflating their numbers, they stand out more. less population doing even higher numbers.

         if you intend to say, since Hmong/Cambodia/what ever poorer Asian group has a less average income than whites, so the statement “Asians” have a higher income than whites” is wrong. you know your just twisting the narrative beyond a point of generalization, which i was at, to a point of maliciousness. i hope your not trying to imply that.

         if you subdivide Hispanic into richer groups like Argentinians, Peruvians, and Venezuelans (Group A) which all have a average income of over 50k. and remove the poorer groups like Hondurans, Dominicans, Mexicans (Group B), who all have 30k-35k average. then compare them again. you can say Hispanics (group A) are well off since the national average is about 50k. or you could say they (Group B) are worse off. so i don’t see the point in the “model minority” if you can use it to exacerbate the numbers by playing even more into identity politics, i don’t see much value in it other than general perspective, nothing wrong with mircoviewing, until you try to skew ideas. but still doesn’t change much.

         Either way that does not effect my statement that “I as a minority don’t need to see my minority in TV, movies, music, business, anywhere to think i can be successful”. in fact looking at the data from the first link, my specific ethnic group (southeast Asian) is the lowest in almost all categories, under 20k average income, yet I do pretty well personally. currently above the national average. guess I’m ruining the curve.

         also funny thing i have to point out in the second article. “But the rosy narrative that all the members of this group are relatively homogenous and successful”. do they think people do not understand how basic statistics work? all people within a statistic are doing the average that the statistic says? do they think people don’t know what average means? average means what everyone has? are they writing for children that take sociology courses during recess?

         as for my marvel comics statement, let me rephrase, “force” diversity and “diversity” are two different things. making a character a specific group too appeal/pander tends to fall into lazy writing. which many readers can pick up on. just having a character a specific group cause it plays into the plot/”feels” right is diversity. this can be a very fine line.

         like i said i have no problem with diverse writing. i do it myself. but when ppl/writers/studios/companies/whatever play into identity politics for, ultimately, money. it’s insulting to the reader and usually effects the writing at some point. let me amend my statement. it’s not diversity that is marvels issue, its the pandering to identity groups, pushed with poor writing. because when you pander, you don’t have to put too much effort in, cause they gonna buy it anyways because it has their group in it. bad business thinking and it caught up to them.

         the fact all comic sales fell, and the article writer blames 1 reader’s fatigue, 2 relaunching series, 3 weak slate of series, 4 crossovers, 5 competition, 6 change in reader’s taste, 7 poor marketing and thinks force diversity isn’t even a factor is sad.

         first i, myself, and essentially all the other comic nerds i know don’t just stop reading comics. the idea comic nerds been reading for years and now just all of a sudden lost interest in comics all together? cause secret wars is over, now comics aren’t worth reading? no, we still read comic, just not weak titles.

         second, comic series relaunch titles all the time. most series have multiple on going plot lines and continuities that release after each other and even simultaneously. i personally don’t like this, but they always do it, literally for over 50 years. but now it all of a sudden is a problem?

         third, weak slate in series- i tie that too force diversity as it creates weak stories as described previously.

         fourth, crossovers- generally fans love crossovers. i don’t have numbers, but i would think they are the higher sellers. sure too much of them get annoying, but too much of anything gets bad. having a bunch of cross overs, isn’t going to stop readers from reading. i watched Naruto fillers till my eyes bled. i can handle some crossovers even after they get excessive.

         fifth, competition, dc pretty much always been a competitor, for decades. comic nerds read what ever is good. we cross over dc, marvel, and image comics, dark horse lines all the time. of course we have our favorites, i personally like image and marvel over dc. but i read all. dc releasing rebirth is not an attack on marvel. they release new comics like every other publisher. its their job. both will release and both will be read.

         sixth, readers taste- sure popularity in genre’s change all the time. but superheroes has always been a staple and probably will always have a large portion in comics. so readers wanting “escapist stories” does not have more impact than in general.

         seventh, marketing- marvel is one of the largest comic book companies in the world. they have their marketing networks built. they market what they got. pretty simple.

         of course, there are multiple issues contributing to marvel’s poor sales, all of these are factors, and force diversity is another one of them, and one we could easily fix. stop pandering.

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         1. Thanks for your response and clarifications. I don’t actually disagree with what you’re saying on how pandering sacrifices good writing and storytelling.

            I was merely pointing out the diversity of experience among Asian Americans since the “model minority myth” is used to obscure the challenges of marginalized Asian American ethnic groups. Asian Americans’ perceived collective success is often used as a racial wedge, minimizing the role of racism in other racial/ethnic groups’ struggles, e.g. “If Asians can succeed, why can’t Black people?” even though anti-Asian racism and anti-Black racism have different histories in the US. Anyway, that’s straying off-topic, and I don’t wish to continue that discussion further, but I appreciate you reading the links I shared.

            At a conference I attended, writer/professor/former TV host Melissa Harris-Perry gave a provocative talk that challenged this notion of Belonging and the desire to see ourselves represented in certain fields. She gave an example where she as a mixed Black woman was assumed to be “the help,” which is a common experience among some women of color, and usually the response is to resist that and be upset that someone stereotyped them as such, but she now embraces it because her ancestors have been “the help,” and she believes it’d be a rejection of them and a devaluing of the work they did to insist, “No, I’m actually x profession”. I hadn’t considered that perspective before.

            And Melissa would agree with you that it shouldn’t be necessary for people of color and other minorities to see themselves represented in order to be successful, but for me, it helps to see role models or characters with similar experiences do well, so I feel less alone or more encouraged. Perhaps you and I just engage with our media differently, so our expectations, needs, and interests differ? I’d also prefer no representation instead of one-dimensional or stereotypical representation; if someone can’t do a minority character justice and write them in a complex, authentic way, I’d rather not be witness to it.

            Where have you seen diverse writing done well in comics? What Image Comics has been publishing has been promising to me.

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            1. The problem with the model minority myth is it is just micro-viewing statistics and assuming people don’t understand what the term average means. you can do it for any and every statistic. we assume whites are well off. but if you micro-view the statistic, not every person in that group has that average income. some have high income, others have low, the average is the middle. so the millionaire white people raise the average when there are many more poor white families living in trailer parks. do we say there is a model minority myth for whites? society sees white families as well off, but if you look into the statistics that would fall apart as well. lets say 1 white family has a million dollar income and 10 white families have 10k income. the average would be 90.9k average (1,000,000+100k/11), which is almost double the national average. which is amazing, but seeing how 10 of those 11 families live well below the poverty line, its horrible. so the model minority logic is well flawed when trying to dispel the idea “Asians make more money than whites”. but its fine when trying to look subdivide groups. maybe someone wants to know how much a specific ethnic group makes compared to the racial group its apart of. that’s fine and maybe even useful information.

               i understand the impulse to support your group, it feels so ingrained in human behavior. i get that feeling myself sometimes, and it seems society endorses it. but it will lead us into a very dangerous and bad habit, tribalism. the idea i “have” to support something cause it pertains to my group and society will harass me if i don’t is a bad situation. i could end up supporting shit or getting bothered for not doing it. i don’t like identity politics and try not to play into it.

               sure its nice to see people of my minority group do well, but i wouldn’t support them if i thought personally they weren’t good. society turns a blind eye to the negatives if it supports their views. but you should be consistent. if you would complain about a white writer for writing bullshit, you should complain about a minority writer writing bullshit. not just give them a pass because they are apart of your minority group. I’ve been attacked because i didn’t blindly support Asian things because i didn’t objectively think they were good. tribalism gone right, which is the problem with tribalism. .

               as for diverse comics i enjoy and like, though ill admit i have some guilty pleasures that i cant completely justify: miles morales as spiderman (hisplanic), harley quinn (female), spawn (black), saga (alien, i guess thats diversity?), monstress (female), wayward (female half japanese), the maxx (the main character is male, but honestly i see julie as the real main character since the story revolves around her), savage dragon (dragons are diverse?), kabuki (female, japanese), invader zim (alien), the walking dead (diverse characters in there are done well), the wicked +the divine (female), fisheye placebo (asian, webcomic)

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               1. Not sure if you’re referring to a universal “you” or me directly, but I don’t support minorities for the sake of it if they’re not up to par; like I said, I’d rather see no representation than poor-quality representation. I do believe in holding writers accountable when they mess up, regardless of their background; for example, recently a woman of color young adult fiction writer received criticism from disabled folks on her portrayal of disability. Holding marginalized identities shouldn’t absolve people from accountability, but sometimes they use their identities to shield themselves from valid critique.

                  Thanks for the recommendations; I enjoy Saga and Monstress, too, and it’s a plus that they feature mixed race characters and their illustrator and writer, respectively, are mixed Asian like me. 😉 But that doesn’t necessarily mean I wouldn’t read these works if that wasn’t the case; I’m just more invested, and that can go one of two ways for readers: either they support a work uncritically because of their bias, and it manifests as “stanning” or the tribalism you speak of, or they hold a work to an equal or higher standard because they expect more from those creators, strong writing included. I fall into the latter camp.

                  Anyway, I don’t think our views are quite as divergent as they seemed; thanks for the dialogue.